So I had to look into the keyboard issue with the * key. When opening the keyboard quickly get the shift lock desoldered. I have heard people tend to melt and ruin the switches. I had no issues with this one twice though I was very quick with removal and re soldering it. While I was in there I pulled out the two reworked plungers.
Above is the * key pressed, it is showing about 1.6k right there, but it varied above 2k, and if pressed really hard, it went down to around 700 Ohms. When pressed very hard it did register enough to work (sometimes).
Here is an example of another key that was working. around 125 Ohms with an easy press. I desoldered the Shift lock key, quickly as mentioned above, get it heated, and pull the wires and get the heat off of it. Then the removal of the screws again as before. Looking at the board and the plungers, I found the * key plunger had all kinds of white specks of dust of some type on it. I cleaned it off as best I could. The other keys didn’t seem to have the issue. I swapped that plunger over to the “British Pound” key, as I don’t expect to use that key much. I then installed the two replacements I had one going to the * key. I reassembled and then did the test on the * key again, and this time I got 70 Ohms, so that new plunger is working pretty good. I then reconnected it to the Commodore 64 and tested it. The keys were working, the “British Pound” key wasn’t as responsive as the rest, so the conductive pad on it must not be in the best condition, so it was good I moved it.
I did the “Soft press Restore” fix as well. The Capacitor Kit I purchased from Console5.com includes a replacement Capacitor for C38. From the site ” includes a 4.7nF capacitor for C38. Exchanging the factory 51pF for this 4.7nF capacitor returns soft-touch function to the RESTORE key. “
I had not intially put it in, I didn’t know what that modifcation did actually. So I looked it up, and it appears to be a good idea to have. Without the fix, the Restore key needs to be pressed hard and fast to get it to register. This is because the way the circuit wired to it works, it is not looking for a press, it is looking for a specific change that is a bit more digital. So it can miss a simple press, the hard press causing the switch in the button to “bounce” a number of times and one of those bounces tends to then register with the computer. It is a simple enough fix to do. That was the last bit I needed to do inside the case.
Next I put the keyboard back in the case, and installed the new plates and reinstalled the LED.
It turned out looking much better than it did originally. It is painted, so I will see how well that wears on it over time. The new badges look very good, they are thicker than the factory ones. The factory ones are about flush with the ridges around them, these are up out of the ridges a little bit. It is the special Gold remade badges. I think it looks neat, I guess it could have been about as good with the standard badges.
Below here is my stock 64. It has yellowed/browned a little bit, but it doesn’t look too bad to me. The new paint is lighter than the other unit, and I think it overall is a little light, but it is a fairly good match I think.
Well I now have the two working C64s. I guess I will need to make a second power supply sometime. I have the parts for it except the case at this time. I guess it is time to move on to another project.
I would love to hear it if anyone knows anything about the 8Pin Video mod that this had received in the past. If there is any information out there as to how it was done. Certainly removing the original port, drilling for the new one. Cutting a few traces around it to separate the additional pins. Then there are the 2 wires that were added in. I am wondering if there would be anything else involved. I think there were probably two changes in the VIC II area, but I don’t know if they are related or not. I also wonder why this board doesn’t have R36, when I have seen others that do, and a few other changes. There seem to be a lot of variations, and I wonder if some of them are recommended fixes done by the service centers to fix issues with the systems, or make them more reliable?
After finally putting it together, I noticed the power LED had quit working. The lead broke off the bottom of the LED, so I ended up replacing it with another vintage used Red LED from my parts bin. Thankfully it looks the same as the original even when lit up. A new modern Red LED would have likely been a fair bit brighter.
There is a note that the Reset Circuit relation to the 556 IC is different on this specific model of board. The schematics are not correct for it, unless there are correct ones somewhere that I have yet to find. This means that the Reset button on cartridges like the Final Cartridge iii etc don’t work. As well as on the User and Serial ports etc. I may look into modifying the board so that will work. I want to do it in such as way that I don’t have to cut traces on the board though. That is why R36 is missing, it is normally the pull up resistor on the Reset line, where in this setup it is not used and only the 556 is.
I had mentioned the video fix for this board in Part 1, but I don’t believe I went over it beyond mentioning. So here it is, Ray Carlsen recommended resistor change for improved Video. These boards shipped with an incorrect resistor installed in the VIC II area, that reduces the level of the Composite Video output.
The resistor is R10 next to the VIC chip. His recommended fix is to add another resistor across the factory installed one. By doing this with the right value of resistor, you can get it set to the proper value. It is easier and safer to pull the resistor and replace it. Anytime you desolder a component you risk damage to the rather delicate circuit board traces. It can be done to look very neat as well.
You should be able to see the “stacked’ blue resistor overtop of the factory installed R10. This combination reduces the value to what it should have been. That did noticeably improve the video output. The factory resistor is 300 Ohms, the resistor that should be there is 120 Ohms. So obviously the signal is reduced. When putting a 220 Ohm resistor across the 300 that takes the value of the two resistors together to to give you around 127 Ohms, so that should be plenty close to the 120 that should be there.
So I managed to replace all of the electrolytic capacitors this C64. The Modulator was quite a pain this time around. Also due to that, I let my desoldering iron sit on idle hot for too long. The tip on it started to break down, so I will have to get a replacement. It worked well enough to finish the job though.
I know some people say replace the capacitors, some people say don’t mess with them if it is working correctly.
I say I hate desoldering the RF Modulator, but as far as something causing something I may see, if the modulator caps are going bad that will affect the video output. The RF Modulator is tied in and affects the Composite output as well, as it usually passes through the modulator. It turns out on this revision though the Composite does not go through the modulator, so it seems on this revision you can possibly just remove the modulator. I haven’t verified that though, and don’t intend to try it at this point.
Above I have prepped to work on the capacitors. They are there, as well as my iron and desoldering iron, and solder collection can that I expel the solder into from the desoldering iron.
As I said the modulator was a pain. They had not “turned” the ears on the modulator to hold it in, they had bent over the small pins. I had to work the modulator loose by getting what I could off and putting pressure on the tab I had loose and hold it down while it cooled, then work my way around. I also ended up pulling the 3 square pins up out through the modulator top. That was my best bet to not lift traces. By heating them with my soldering iron from the top side inside the modulator, until it could put pulled up with my pliers that I was holding the pin with. Once they were out of the way, it was one of those pieces they bent over that was stuck in the end making it so I could remove it. I did loose some of the bottom pads, or do a good bit of damage to them where they can is soldered in with the tabs. In the end it doesn’t look too bad, the one that fell off I put back in place and reapplied solder. The one square pin lost the narrow pad from the bottom, but not the through hole thankfully. It was the audio pin and that is why I decided to just heat and remove them pulling them up out. It was a good idea. They are a tight fit, so once I had them out, I ended up using a small file to file off the old solder so they would fit again. You don’t want them loose, because they are double soldered, you risk the solder loosing contact then.
After getting the modulator off, I replaced the capacitors in it, then went and replaced the remaining ones on the mainboard before reinstalling it.
I cleaned the tabs and such on the modulator body and the holes in the board to make sure it would fit back in easily. After that I reinstalled the cleaned up pins into the modulator. In the picture the center one had some solder on it again as I had started to reinstall it but pulled it back off.
I actually pulled it off, so I could check where the traces went under it, for those three pins. I wanted to be able to make sure they were making good contact before finalizing the work. So I reinstalled it, but I did not solder any of the tabs back tight before testing.
She still worked after the replacements. I haven’t tested the Keyboard or Sound though yet. Yes I was wearing an ESD Wrist Strap and working on my grounded ESD Mat.
After it tested good, I then twisted the tabs on the modulator and soldered all of that back on. I did a bit of cleanup of the flux and reinstalled it into the bottom case. Now I need to do that keyboard work so I can put this all back together and use it again.
The new tips came. I am going to be more careful about leaving it idle when it is not in use.
Here is my desoldering tip. I have seen this happen with Copper based tips, I guess this is Brass looking? If the hot solder is left on them it starts to dissolve the metal of the tip into the solder. It is replaceable, and I like the iron so ordered in a replacement for it. Once they start doing that they keep breaking down. Other types of tips will just burn the plating off and then will quit accepting solder and not transfer the heat properly. I will not leave it idle like that while it is on again. It was while I was working with the modulator, which may have taken a hour. I was taking care to not wreck it, so it took awhile.
Beyond the modulator it was an easy recap. Most of the capacitors I pulled tested pretty reasonable but not all.
Three of the 10uF capacitors tested with almost no capacitance. Otherwise they were a little inconsistent and all of them measured above their stated values. The new ones are closer to their rated values. With those three odd ones, I feel it was worth it.
Well on to revisit the keyboard. I really don’t want to take it apart again, but the * key is kind of important. So I will get that in the next and likely last post on this refurbishment.
I didn’t think I could do much with the tab, and with the two cracked screw standoffs, I figured it was worth while to get it. I will have to say I am very happy with the fit and quality of the parts. I attached them with some JB Well 4400psi Epoxy.
I am doing another coat of paint on the lower portion of the case, partly in hopes of a sturdier finish, but also due to that crack that showed at one of the Din ports in the back. I had glued it, then I used some Epoxy on the inside to help it as well. I then used the White Putty in the crack to help blend it out.
With the top I cut the broken portion of the case tab off. It was the narrow one. I then installed Birt’s replacement tab. It was a perfect fit. Per his recommendation I did slightly round its edges and the two remaining tabs. I also put his parts on to reinforce the cracked screw standoffs in the top. I again used the White Putty on the outside of the crack in the right front corner of the case to help blend it out for the paint. While I had the epoxy, I decided to reinforce the inside of that crack with it as well.
The paint turned out really well. I put on about 3 coats on it. Krylon Fusion All in One Matte River Rock.
I ordered in some reproduction badges for the top of the case. Well I went with the “gold” model type labels. This thing is an odd machine, and the reproduction badges are great, but the way they are made is a bit different so it was not going to look exactly original from close up. So I am happy to make this rather neglected, and somewhat unique 64 look a bit more unique.
I have just finished replacing the electrolytic capacitors on the board. That will be posted in Part 3. The modulator was quite a pain this time around.
I still need to look at the * key and see if I can get it to be more responsive. The two “repaired” plungers are a bit off, the height is just a little wrong. I am going swap them out and keeping them as future spares. I need to open the keyboard to check out the * key anyways, I might as well switch them. I may redo them with epoxy sometime and try to adjust the height a bit more. I don’t know if that will be Part 4 and hopefully end up with it finished up.
I picked up another Commodore 64 breadbin model. It had a rough time in storage from the looks of it. The system has been in a damp dirty storage area, there were several of them being sold by the same person, in similar conditions along with some other old 80s era computers like Apple ii systems. I guess they were stored in a basement somewhere that had some real water/moisture problems.
As you can see from the outside it is a bit dirty, and some keys were missing. This was I think the second best looking of the batch. Below you can see the inside, the paper shield was a mess, black mildew along the bottom. A good bit of dirt inside. After seeing it in the bag, I decided I wasn’t even opening it inside. So I took it out back and opened it there. I removed the cardboard shield and it went strait to the trash can. The case was then hosed down to get the worst of the dirt off. I wiped the keyboard down a bit and the board before taking them in. The case parts went it the tub and got a really good scrubbing.
I removed the RF Shield and cleaned the board with some 91% IPA. It turns out to be a bit of an interesting board. Yes the screws are mostly rusty, the RF Shield and Cartridge port plate tells a tale of too much water too. On close inspection the board looks ok for the most part, the legs of some of the components are rusted, I clipped a them and the tips just fell off. This board has obviously been worked on in the past. The inner cardboard sheet that was above the bottom RF Shield went strait to the trash, it was about as awful as the upper cardboard shield.. I kind of like this brass looking shield, but without the cardboard to go with it, I won’t be reinstalling it. I don’t care enough to make a new cardboard piece.
You may notice the wires in the above picture. This is a 326298 Rev A board. An early board that only has the 5 Pin Video port. This board was built in 82 based on the unsocketed chips. The board had extensive work done to it. All of the main chips are socketed. They are all dated second half of 84. The 5 Pin Video port was replaced with the later 8 Pin Video port. There are two wires running off from that port, and various cut traces on the top and bottom to separate out the additional pins. I think in the VIC II area there were possibly some other changes. The VIC II area cage was (and still is) rather rusted as well as the RF modulator top plate, and the RF RCA Port was all rusted.
So after the ipa bath I hooked up the board.
It worked, no issues. Next I tested the keyboard, it worked, minus the two broken keys. Some keys were not very responsive though. I did a full teardown of the keyboard to clean it properly.
I first removed all of the keycaps with my keycap puller. I recommend one, they are rather cheap and good insurance to prevent breaking the old plastic. I next desoldered the wires on the ShiftLock key. I had removed the tape from around the keyboard, as you can see, to get to the screws under it. After removing the screws the board lifts off, and you can see the plungers then.
I took out the plungers and put them to the side, then took the keyboard frame and sent it to the tub and some warm very soapy water. I also soaked the keys in the soapy water. Then scrubbed the keyboard and keycaps with a toothbrush and rinsed them well and dried them. I also took the springs which were dirty and some were rather rusty. I put the springs into some White Vinegar. The Vinegar removes the rust, it does make the metal a bit dull looking. I expect if you leave them in too long you may break down the metal too, so I kept checking on them. They cleaned up well, the worst of them you could tell were actually pitted but were still in working order. I then washed the vinegar off with some water and dried the spring as best I could. I placed all of that on a towel to dry properly.
While that was drying, I took some IPA on a qtip and lightly wiped the contacts on the circut board. We don’t want to remove the conductive coating. If you clean too much of it off they keys won’t work. Next I took the plungers, and wiped the shaft part with a damp cloth to get any dirt off, I didn’t wipe the contacts on the plungers, they looked pretty good. They were mostly clean overall due to being covered by the keycaps and in the keyboard frame holes.
All of the good plungers and two broken ones.
Well, I had watched Perifractic’s Lego 64 videos, and I got an idea to try on the broken plungers. They did still work, as I had tested the keyboard with them, they just won’t hold a key now.
So I found a Lego laying around. You see the full piece I started with there in the lower left. I cut it in half, cleaned the plunger up and fited it to it. I shaved it down to go into the plunger shaft a little for more surface area and strength. Then I glued it in with a combination of Bondic and Super Glue gel. I DID have to file down the Lego piece, it was too large and the Commodore Key cap wouldn’t go on it. I used my small Diamond Grit Needle Files from Harbor Freight (they are just small files, I got the Diamond Grit ones, they seemed to work well for me on plastics). I will say that the glue doesn’t hold well, these tops will come off. So it isn’t a great fix, but I think it will work. I am still waiting on replacement Plungers and springs for the keyboard. I put the one plunger back at the British Pound symbol location, but I put the other at another key that is less likely to see much use. The 8 key gets a lot of use.
Here is the keyboard frame after reassembly.
Here is the keyboard back together back in the cleaned upper case. I tested it and it all works. The * key doesn’t work very well though.. When I get the new plungers in, I will probably remove the circuit board again and check that key. I don’t know if it it is the plunger, or dirt, or the contacts on the circuit board. Other than that and the missing caps, the keyboard was quite responsive, better than my other C64. That one I did not remove the board to clean the contacts. Removing to swap the plunger and check that key isn’t too bad. I will only have to desolder the ShiftLock key and remove the screws. The plungers that I am not working with will all stay as long as the keycaps are still on the keys can’t come out.
I does look much better than it did, but it is very streaked. The Power LED plate was actually corroded to the point much of the paint was lifted and flaking off. Corroded Aluminium.. Ya, I guess a good bit of moisture for a long period of time. I plan to get a replacement Badge and maybe a matching Power LED plate, I just don’t know what I want to go with.
Next I started on some preventative maintenance as well as rust removal. I had already removed the rusty tops of the VIC II area and the Modulator top cover. I then desoldered the Cartridge Plate and the VIC II cage which is rather rusty. I did alot of cleanup on the RF Modulator cover and Cartridge plate. A combination of wire brushes, sanding, and polishing with the Dremel etc. To remove the stickers easily, I put a little WD40 on them and let it sit. When I was done they were pretty decent. I tried some Vinegar on the RF Modulator cover, but that removes the protective coating that was still on some areas of it, so I stopped that. I did soak all of the rusty screws (basically every screw in this thing) in the Vinegar to get the rust off. I also removed the Fuse holder pieces, and fuse, they were quite corroded. I placed them into the Vinegar as well (well not the fuse). The Vinegar did clean the corrosion pretty well off the Fuse holder, but it left those areas black, I then polished them back to a shiny surface before reinstalling them. When all the rust was off of the screws and Cartridge plate and RF Modulator cover, I put some “Teflon Non-Stick Dry-Film Lubricant” on them. Not to Lubricate them so much, but to put a protective film on them to help prevent them rusting again. I did the same with the keyboard springs after they were dry. I don’t use the stuff on plastics though it puts a white film on that is hard to remove. So I put it on before putting them in place.
I resoldered the Cartridge Plate back to the board. I also touched up some solder points on the board. The VIC II cage will not be going back in either. I think the VIC will stay cooler without it, and with a proper heatsink installed.
Here is the board reinstalled after cleaning up the rusty bits.
The board was tested again and still worked. So next I installed a few heatsinks.
The 5 Volt Regulator doesn’t have much of a heatsink on it. The Rivet is loose and the heatsink is spinning around. So I decided to remove it and fix that as best I could. I took the heatsink off of it. I placed it on a new 2 Amp capable 5 Volt Regulator, it wasn’t needed, but that is what I keep around. I was a concerned that with the age and heat that Regulator dealt with over the years plus that loose tiny heatsink that it really should be replaced before it fails. When these regulators fail they most often fail open, meaning they will push the full voltage through them instead of dropping it or cutting off the voltage completely.. That fries the ics in the board. I have not heard of them failing inside the C64, while they are the big issue inside the C64 power supplies. With that very tiny heatsink, which was also not making good thermal connection to the regulator I didn’t want to take a chance on it. This time I put a second folded back heatsink behind it with thermal compound between the heatsinks as well as on the back of the regulator and bolted it all together.
This change to the Heatsink is an improvement, I guess. Still it seems very inadequate and gets very very hot.
As far as the case repairs go, I guess I didn’t take any pictures to show that specifically. The top of the case is cracked in the front right corner, it appeared to have taken a hit to that corner. It also has 2 cracks in some of the screw supports. I used my solder iron on a lower temp to melt the inside of the crack in the corner of the case together again. Then I put some liquid Testors Model glue in from the back to smooth it out. That did start to melt the plastic, I removed the excess glue. I have found that if you use that stuff and it melts the plastic and there is too much excess glue the plastic won’t harden again. The one standoff in the top of the care there is cracked as well, I haven’t fixed that yet, I think maybe from the same trauma that cracked the top. Three of the standoffs that hold the keyboard in place were sheared off as well. Those I glue back on with superglue gel. I then clamped them for a day and left it sit. That will give me the best strength, they shouldn’t be stressed while it is curing, which is 24 hours to get to full strength per the manufactures directions that is. The clamping ensures they are down properly and the joint is thin and tight too. After that I put some Bondic glue around them, the Bondic won’t cure in the crack because it needs UV Light to cure. I have also found it doesn’t bond very well compared to Super Glue. It does retain some flexibility and have some hold, I find that can assist Super Glue because it holds so tight, but doesn’t flex and fractures.
This case is badly discolored and I don’t want to try to retrobright it. I picked up some Krylon Fusion All-In-One Paint+Primer “Matte River Rock” paint awhile back to potentially paint a 1541 case. The case had some small chips out of the bottom. I took some Tamiya Putty “white” and filled in and built up the missing areas. It is a potent thin putty that dries quickly, and sands well for me. I it seems to bond to the case plastic well (As the model glue fuses the plastic, so I would expect the model putty to grip it well too). When I was done with the physical repairs to the bottom portion of the case, I put a even coat of the Matte River Rock paint on it. It turned out well. After the paint dried I found a crack show in the center of the half circle of the video port in the middle of the case. I glued that with the Testors Liquid model glue, I hope it holds well. Later I will put on some epoxy to help give that crack a little more support (I should have used Epoxy on the keyboard plungers instead) . I think once the board is reinstalled it will have more support where that crack is as well.
I haven’t done anything to the top of the case so far except weld and glue the one crack. The one case clip on it is broken off and lost. There are also 2 screws posts in the top that are cracked. I have thought about getting one of Birt’s “Hey Birt!” case saver kits to get a new case clip, I could use one of the reinforcement pieces on the cracked stand off, and have spares for the future. As I have to fix that case clip, I don’t want to paint the case yet, I will likely scratch up the paint having it upside down for those repairs. I will put several coats on the case. I want to test the paint on something with a Matt Finish clear over it. Some paints don’t mix well, and can cause the lower paint to lift or got to a crackle like finish. I have found that even with paints from the same company.. So I will test the Krylon Matt Finish first on a scrap of similar plastic (probably a modern computer case bezel). I want to put the clear over it, even though I like the existing Matt Finish of the paint as it should help protect it better.
So for now that is about it for this C64. In the future I will be doing more to it. The remaining repairs to the case. That include the Clip and post repair as well as painting and installing a new Badge plate. Checking out the * key, as well as installing the replacement keys and springs. I also have a capacitor replacement kit for it. With the 84 Breadbin I already worked on, I had found some capacitors that showed evidence of failing, so I figure this one is going to be served well by replacing them. I do wonder if that, especially the ones in the RF Modulator, may make a difference in the video output. I may or may not install some additional heatsinks. The computer is working fine, but it does have bad jailbars, so I may do something with that too at some point. I don’t know of removing the modulator and building up a replacement would help that or not.
I would love to know where the other Breadbins that were sold with this ended up and see that they were properly cared for. There was a very interesting VIC that I would have loved to see, but I wasn’t paying that kind of cash for a VIC let alone one that looked like it spent a few years sitting in water.
Muldrf's Hobbytronic 